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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 2:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,231
I've done some analysis of the weapon damages and their values.  Here's what I've discovered (which kind of validates my suspicions):

handgun = 5 pts / 480ms = 10 pts/s / $100 =  0.1 damage/dollar
shotgun = 100 pts / 1200ms = 83 pts/s / $250 =  0.332 damage/dollar
machinegun = 10 pts / 192ms = 52 pts/s / $450 =  0.116 damage/dollar
sniper = 250 pts / 2400ms = 104 pts/s / $500 =  0.208 damage/dollar
flamethrower = 8 pts / 72ms = 111 pts/s / $750 =  0.148 damage/dollar
bazooka = 20 pts * 30ms / 7200ms = 117 pts/s / $1000 = 0.117 damage/dollar

If you just look at the damage/dollar figures, you'll see that Sniper is logically the best bang for your buck (pun intended).  Although Shotgun has higher value, its range is soooo limited that I'm willing to overlook it.  I think either Bazooka needs more damage to compensate (making the game easier) or sniper needs to be nerfed (making the game harder).  I like the price points, so I'd rather not adjust the costs.

What say you folk?  Personally, I'm leaning towards making Sniper less powerful.  It's main advantage should be range, which doesn't even factor into this calculation.


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Hawkeye
May 5, 2009, 1:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,055
I disagree.  If you are just looking at damage per dollar spent it seems sniper should be less... but if you look at the amount of damage I feel it is in keeping with reality.  Sniper rifles are very powerful and are highly accurate.. meaning the hero can pick the plumb spot for the most damage.  You've hand cuffed them by making them take 2.4 seconds between shots.  Perhaps make it 2.7 seconds.


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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 1:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,231
Well, let's adjust for range then:

handgun = 0.1 damage/dollar * 100 px = 10 damage potential
shotgun = 0.332 damage/dollar * 80 px = 26.56 damage potential
machinegun = 0.116 damage/dollar * 150 px = 17.4 damage potential
sniper = 0.208 damage/dollar * 300 px = 62.4 damage potential
flamethrower = 0.148 damage/dollar * 80 px = 11.48 damage potential
bazooka = 0.117 damage/dollar * 200 px = 23.4 damage potential

This isn't a facetious comparison, since the greater range allows for more shots to be taken before the enemy reaches the hero's position.  Note, this calculation already takes into account the time delay between shots, and the price of each unit.

You can see the sniper SMOKES all the other weapons by at least 3x.  I'm okay with flamethrower being so low since it is more useful as a blockade than damage dealer.  But other than that, all these number should be about equal (NOTE: That does not mean all weapons should do the same damage.  This is damage / dollar).

Since Hawkeye recommends snipers stay as powerful as they are, these calculations indicate snipers should cost about $1500 then.  Would you be okay with that?

I also think HandGuns are too underpowered.  I should increase their damage or decrease their cost.  I'm leaning towards increasing their damage, cuz other than a meat shield, they're actually more of a liability than anything at the higher levels.


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Hawkeye
May 5, 2009, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,055
Wow, yeah if you use all those comparison stats then snipers should be more expensive... but the one stat I am concerned with is actual damage.  When a zombie gets hit by one sniper shot he takes 250 pts damage... when that same zombie gets hit by a bazooka he takes 600 pts damage... Do you really think making the sniper 50% more expensive than a bazooka is warrented?  I don't.
Take for example the lone dragon... 10 bazookas will kill it, but 10 snipers won't.

With these cost comparisons what exactly are you looking for? What is your motive?

Do you want all the heroes to have the same numbers ie same damage per dollar, or same damage per pixel?

If you are concerned with various hero powers, then perhaps have zombies that target specific heroes.  This then would force players to strategize more.


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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 2:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,231
Fantastic idea!  My concern was that people would just buy snipers and obliterate whatever came at them.  That that would become the only strategy... buy snipers and lots of them.

So what can be immune to sniper rifles and not other types of bullets?  I could make zombies that are immune to bullets period (thus, only flame throwers and bazookas can hurt them).  How about a level of about 100 of those?


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Hawkeye
May 5, 2009, 3:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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Try just buying snipers and see how far you get.  I guarantee not very far.  

You could have armoured zombies as an explanation of their resistance to bullets.


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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 3:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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You guarantee do you?  


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Hawkeye
May 5, 2009, 4:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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OK... I take back that guarantee.  In fact, if you buy nothing but snipers and the occassional barrier you will defeat everything!  

So, your worst fears are realized.  Four options:

1) reduce the sniper power
2) increase the time between shots
3) have a zombie type that is impervious to bullets
4) some combination of all of the above.


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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 4:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,231
Darn, and I had these wonderful screenshots of my nothing-but-sniper victories prepared.  



Attachment: snipers1_6105.jpg
Size: 97.87 KB

Attachment: snipers2_8595.jpg
Size: 106.33 KB



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Diddly
May 5, 2009, 5:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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God mode added!  Well, infinite cash.  Amounts to roughly the same thing.  Also, once you enable infinite money and start the first wave, the game just keeps throwing wave after wave at you until you've gone through them all or your population is dead.

Snipers now take a little longer between shots.  Consider it the time it takes to aim that perfect shot.  They're still just as powerful as before, just slower.

I've also added another enemy.  Floating Zombies with Shields.  Dang these are nasty!


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Hawkeye
May 6, 2009, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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Just noticed on the 1st level with werewolves they and the zombies go through the brick walls as if they weren't there.


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Danmick
May 6, 2009, 6:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Knight
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I've been noticing that quite a bit actually... they just run right over me every time on that level.
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Diddly
May 8, 2009, 8:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
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Quoted from Hawkeye
Too bad there's no chat feature on this thing.


Amazingly, the ancient "Chat" button still works.  (I've reverted back from the Flash version to HTML since it was broken)


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Diddly
May 10, 2009, 1:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 1,231
New Zombies version.  Whole lotta stuff added this time.

New Loading screen
Now displays attack animations (You'll notice it first with the wraith)
New Undead Heroes (yes, every type!  That's what took so long)
New levels

Good luck making it past the last level!


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Shabadu_SMH
May 11, 2009, 4:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Noble
Posts: 593
Wow.. I don't check messages for a week and I miss a LOT!
Even if it is too late to pipe in, I thought I'd send my 2 cents worth regarding the sniper costs.  I don't think you need to jack the prices around too much... the sniper shot is a one-kill, whereas the bazooka shot is a group-kill.  But if you wanted to limit the sniper's effectiveness you could do something like adding a minimum range?  He gets looong range and medium range, but not short-range.  That would be less significant with the drones, but pretty important with the dragons!  But you could also minimize the sniper attack on the zombies because "flesh wounds" are less significant to brainless brutes than they are to those with brains and who feel pain.
Something to consider..
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